Curse

DreamWind · Apr 21, 2009, 10:55 AM // 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Are we playing the same game? Trading game? Really?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

They aren't selling "trading" either. As zwei2stein said, GW is not a trading game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabwatt

Traders dont as they buy and sell... their storage is always changing.

This is getting ridiculous. You guys are picking my specific use of the word "trading" to say my entire point is wrong. I was simply responding to the guy who said Guild Wars wasn't a "trading game". Of course it isn't a trading game...but trading is a part of the game! More specifically, items and having the storage for those items is a large part of the game for a lot of people. If it wasn't, we wouldn't have had so many complaints for so long about minimal storage and we wouldn't have Anet trying to sell us storage now.

Now getting back to the point, you guys are using the argument that storage isn't part of the gameplay. Whos gameplay? Maybe not yours? Try taking away the storage from everybody and get back to me on how many people enjoy the gameplay. You guys are fooling yourselves if you don't think storage is a part of the gameplay.

And if you still don't believe that, then you have to convince me that storage is somehow part of the vanity category, which in the context of this thread is referring to how your characters look. Good luck convincing anybody storage fits into that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

You're starting to get dellusionnal. Btw, business models are not black&white. (no offense, but you are a selfish person, your points about player skill are not for the sake of others, only because you want the game to be such that you still enjoy it; please do realise that a lot of people still enjoy this game, as can be seen from the positive feedback people post on this board, contrarily to your overwhelmingly negative posts; not saying you HAVE to be positive, but always being negative shows your true colors)

Ad hominem? Nevertheless, what does a lot of people enjoying the game have to do with the selling of storage and microtransactions? And I'm failing to see where you find this large amount of positive feedback...if anything this thread has been about even in terms of negative and positive posts (with maybe a slight leaning towards positive).

Lastly, I have had many positive posts, but this isn't the thread for those.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

(you're only trying to win an academic argument here, because you're barely playing the game anymore and will not pay for anything whatever the price is, since you think only vanity items should be buyable and you wouldn't buy them anyway; if everyone was like you, Anet would have failed miserably 3 years ago)

I don't think vanity items should be buyable either. Have you been reading my posts?

And 3 years ago Anet was doing just fine before microtransactions ever existed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

UAX can't be compared to storage tabs, unless (again) you're twisting the meaning of words "convenience", "advantage" and "gameplay".

Of course they can...they both fit into the "microtransaction" category (or at least the definition of the word that has been used in this thread).

We have many people of the opinion that anything Anet sells is fine because it makes them money. I'm all for them making money, but that doesn't address the point I am trying to make. I am saying that just because Anet sells it doesn't mean it SHOULD be sold (UAX for absolute certain and storage almost certainly in this category). Not to mention that opinion is open to the hole of what is right or wrong for Anet to sell (could they sell us gold next?). There are certainly a lot of things that it wouldn't be right for them to sell...how do you judge? Is it ok as long as it doesn't affect how you play the game?

Crom The Pale · Apr 21, 2009, 11:11 AM // 11:11

Ok, lets figure out just how much storage we currently have and how much a player really needs.

Storage Box: 20 slots per tab, 4 tabs if you have everything, 1 Material tab upto 250 of each mat.

Character storage: 45 slots, minimum of 8 (?) chars if you have everything.

Required Storage: 10 slots for dyes, people always seam to collect these but could just buy as needed.
10 for Books, this is an estimate but most have far fewer books.
20 slots for tomes(elite + non-elite)
2 slots per char for Ident/Salvage kits.
8 slots per char for weapon swaps.
4 slots per char for mini-pets (based on birthdays not purchases)
6 slots per char for random collectables (destroyer cores, char carvings, ect...)
10 slots per char for extra Armor.

Now lets do the math.

440 existing storage slots.
280 needed storage slots.
___

160 remaining storage slots for game play/collecting junk.

Add in the new Equipment packs and I can't really see what the storage issue is.

zwei2stein · Apr 21, 2009, 11:21 AM // 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

...

Except ... storage is floating issue.

Thats, players will always find way to use all of it and demand more. There will be always more junk they can collect and let gather dust. Anet could be adding 20 slot pane every week and it would not be enough.

When you get UAX, you are set for forever. There is no more "i wish i could unlock more skill". You are done.

And unlike getting more storage, you can get UAX on your own axis by normal game mechanics without ever having to buy anything else than campaign. Hell, all it takes to get PvP build going is 8 freaking skills. Eight.

Apples and Oranges.

rabwatt · Apr 21, 2009, 11:46 AM // 11:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Now getting back to the point, you guys are using the argument that storage isn't part of the gameplay. Whos gameplay? Maybe not yours? Try taking away the storage from everybody and get back to me on how many people enjoy the gameplay. You guys are fooling yourselves if you don't think storage is a part of the gameplay.

And if you still don't believe that, then you have to convince me that storage is somehow part of the vanity category, which in the context of this thread is referring to how your characters look. Good luck convincing anybody storage fits into that.

Of course some storage is necessary for gameplay.... but we already have adequate storage to allow for everything relating to gameplay. Crom The Pale's post nicely sums up what is necessary for gameplay and even his is taken to the max. There is still many slots left for anything else you care to horde.

Im getting to see why you think it is not a vanity issue... as you have taken one definition of the word vanity - "Characters look" and applied it to this thread. While the rest of us take the meaning as basically anything that can differ without actually changing the gameplay...
ie... one 15>50% +30 20/20 sword is good enough
but for vanity sake some people have Crystalline, Obsidian, Zodiac versions (thats 2 extra slots not needed for gameplay but for purely vanity reasons)

A good way to tell is have a look through all your storage items.... how many are just for show? and how many do you actually use? ie vanity vs gameplay

Rocky Raccoon · Apr 21, 2009, 11:57 AM // 11:57

I think we all are forgetting to add in the hat collector to the equation, no need to store them anymore.

DreamWind · Apr 21, 2009, 12:35 PM // 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Thats, players will always find way to use all of it and demand more. There will be always more junk they can collect and let gather dust. Anet could be adding 20 slot pane every week and it would not be enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabwatt

Of course some storage is necessary for gameplay.... but we already have adequate storage to allow for everything relating to gameplay. Crom The Pale's post nicely sums up what is necessary for gameplay and even his is taken to the max. There is still many slots left for anything else you care to horde.

Not neccessarily. Let me go back to why I even got involved in this thread though. For years players complained about storage...now Anet releases an update where storage is purchasable. I just hate the whole principle of the thing. Players want something so sell it to them. I understand where you guys are coming from, but I have to question where it ends.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

When you get UAX, you are set for forever. There is no more "i wish i could unlock more skill". You are done.

Until new skills come out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

And unlike getting more storage, you can get UAX on your own axis by normal game mechanics without ever having to buy anything else than campaign. Hell, all it takes to get PvP build going is 8 freaking skills. Eight.

Apples and Oranges.

So its ok for somebody to spend money to get something that nobody can get through normal game mechanics? This also begs the question...if you are ok with storage being sold are you also ok with UAX being sold? How about unique skins?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabwatt

Im getting to see why you think it is not a vanity issue... as you have taken one definition of the word vanity - "Characters look" and applied it to this thread. While the rest of us take the meaning as basically anything that can differ without actually changing the gameplay...

Well your definition is basically correct...sword skins etc would be vanity items. Basically what its come down to is I think storage is part of the gameplay and you are saying it is only the gameplay if you collect vanity items. Fine...but either way I still don't believe it should be sold.

rabwatt · Apr 21, 2009, 12:58 PM // 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Well your definition is basically correct...sword skins etc would be vanity items. Basically what its come down to is I think storage is part of the gameplay and you are saying it is only the gameplay if you collect vanity items. Fine...but either way I still don't believe it should be sold.

So vanity = gameplay :-) hehe

P.S. only 7 days to persuade ANET to change their minds ;-)

Rocky Raccoon · Apr 21, 2009, 01:00 PM // 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

For years players complained about storage...now Anet releases an update where storage is purchasable.

Well your definition is basically correct...sword skins etc would be vanity items. Basically what its come down to is I think storage is part of the gameplay and you are saying it is only the gameplay if you collect vanity items. Fine...but either way I still don't believe it should be sold.

Extra storage is a luxury item and as we all know most luxury items come with a cost. You will be getting some extra storage at no cost and if you want more, the option to buy some.

immortius · Apr 21, 2009, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

So its ok for somebody to spend money to get something that nobody can get through normal game mechanics? This also begs the question...if you are ok with storage being sold are you also ok with UAX being sold? How about unique skins?

You have to pay money to get each chapter, you can't unlock the content in game. So it stands to reason that some things are ok to be bought. A chapter has a vast affect on gameplay, such as what skills and equipment you can use. Should all that be free? But then, at least in theory, the chapters and their contents are balanced against each other (vastly debatable and likely untrue).

What is objectionable is selling things that have affect the balance of play in PvE missions, explorables or PvP. If ArenaNet sold an item that doubled your XP gain, or a sword that did more than normal damage, or the last 30 attribute points then I would agree there was a legitimate complaint. Such a feature would basically be a mandatory purchase. An extension to an account feature that is already reasonably plentiful (maybe not hugely so, but not a game breaker)? Not so much. 20 more storage won't help you kill a Charr boss, or win a GvG, or anything really. It barely helps you store more stuff really.

Price is another story of course.

zwei2stein · Apr 21, 2009, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Not neccessarily. Let me go back to why I even got involved in this thread though. For years players complained about storage...now Anet releases an update where storage is purchasable. I just hate the whole principle of the thing. Players want something so sell it to them. I understand where you guys are coming from, but I have to question where it ends.

So far this is *exception* to how anet does business, they mostly stick with sell-chapter-be-rich-dont-ask-for-more-...-hey-lets-do-free-updates.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Until new skills come out.

And players would pay anyway for content. And have option of getting em without UAX.

Besides, how often does that happen?

And its not like players won't have 10k faction lying around and be able to unlock whatever they need immediately.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

So its ok for somebody to spend money to get something that nobody can get through normal game mechanics? This also begs the question...if you are ok with storage being sold are you also ok with UAX being sold? How about unique skins?

Duh, yes. It is okay to buy new campaign to get more areas, new skills, new drops, new quests. Or do you want to go uphill on your slippery slope?

CronkTheImpaler · Apr 21, 2009, 01:51 PM // 13:51

wth is UAX? thanks much!

Cronk

Lonesamurai · Apr 21, 2009, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by CronkTheImpaler

wth is UAX? thanks much!

Cronk

Unlock All Everything (basically)

AmbientMelody · Apr 21, 2009, 02:04 PM // 14:04

/signed

This is simply ridiculous and unforgivable!

Anduril_0923 · Apr 21, 2009, 04:35 PM // 16:35

I keep seeing people refer to collectors as the people who need more storage. I'm not a collector, however:

1. I have stacks of certain things - sweets, party items, alcohol, etc. - but I'm using them over time, either for the inherent bonus they give or the title they benefit (or both).

2. I have keys that I use every day.

3. I have tomes.

4. I have armor - different armor for different occasions (Basic example: CoF armor and 55 armor) - for all of my characters. My assassin has two sets, but really needs 3 or 4. My ranger has 2 sets. My monk has three sets. My elementalist, who is my main, has 8.

5. I have multiple weapons - again, different weapons for different occasions (Basic example: fire focus/offhand and water focus/offhand) - for all my characters. Each character has at least three different weapon sets. My elementalist has a wand/offhand for each attribute as well as a matching staff. Plus a longbow for pulling.

Using my main character as the example, 8 sets of armor + 15 equippable items (probably more, actually) is going to full up an equipment bag in no time, leaving a lot of stuff still taking up slots in my Xunlai. Currently, only my main and my assassin have armor and weapons in storage. Everyone else has to carry their own and I have to cycle the space in my Xunlai so that whichever character I choose to play can have plenty of inventory space to pick up the phat loot that drops. Did I mention that I have 11 Characters? If I had to carry around all the stuff that I might potentially use in a given day on each of my characters, I wouldn't be able to pick up drops, leaving me no way to make money. Money is essential to achieving the titles I'm working on (the afore mentioned Sweet, Party, Alcohol, and keys), so storage absolutely is essential to my gameplay experience.

I have to at least support Dreamwind on that.

Norm0 · Apr 21, 2009, 04:52 PM // 16:52

I'd much rather just goto www.newegg.com and buy another copy of guild wars, 9.99 shipped.. Which would give me a ton more storage.

Also another char slot is 9.99 as well, which holds more then 20 items. Yeah chest is 'convenient' and all, but im not that lazy. Kinda a no brainer to me, 9.99 for new char slot, or storage pane.. I'm sure this has been pointed out before, all in all id just order another copy for $10 bux..

- Norm

Rocky Raccoon · Apr 21, 2009, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anduril_0923

I'm not a collector, however: etc.
I have to at least support Dreamwind on that.

You claim you are not a collector and then proceed to narrate an immense list items you have in storage.

collect: to gather together; assemble

Shmanka · Apr 21, 2009, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

/NOT Signed

Optional purchases are fine by me

This was found on the front page, I know I am little behind on this thread...

"Optional" purchases are great, there is nothing wrong with them. Although, personally from my perspective, wasting limited resources on ridiculous optional purchases is something completely different, and is the situation all players are facing right now.

I remember when this game had updates everyweek, world championships, and a high level of pvp competition. Those things did not "die" because the game got old, those things died because of the horrible decision makers that lead this company into the river like they have been for the past few years, and it still continues.

/signed

Lonesamurai · Apr 21, 2009, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shmanka

This was found on the front page, I know I am little behind on this thread...

"Optional" purchases are great, there is nothing wrong with them. Although, personally from my perspective, wasting limited resources on ridiculous optional purchases is something completely different, and is the situation all players are facing right now.

I remember when this game had updates everyweek, world championships, and a high level of pvp competition. Those things did not "die" because the game got old, those things died because of the horrible decision makers that lead this company into the river like they have been for the past few years, and it still continues.

/signed

But we have known for well overa year that they aren;t doing regular updates anymore

we've known that most of the dev team is now on Guild Wars 2 for well over a year now

We've known since the beginning of the year that we would get maybe three or four big updates (like the storage update and anniversary content this week) and that is posted on the website and Wiki and that there is a Live Team of 5(ish) people working on the game and a lot of these updates are things that the guys have done in spare time and lunchtimes etc

DreamWind · Apr 21, 2009, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabwatt

So vanity = gameplay :-) hehe

No, but not too far off. Believe it or not some people play this game for vanity reasons. Selling a vanity item in the store would technically be a change to their gameplay. I still don't think that is as bad as this however.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

Extra storage is a luxury item and as we all know most luxury items come with a cost. You will be getting some extra storage at no cost and if you want more, the option to buy some.

Luxury items come with a cost now? I always thought gameplay determined what people do or don't have. And again with the option thing. *sigh*

Quote:

Originally Posted by immortius

You have to pay money to get each chapter, you can't unlock the content in game. So it stands to reason that some things are ok to be bought. A chapter has a vast affect on gameplay, such as what skills and equipment you can use. Should all that be free?

No...I've said from the beginning that the chapters should be bought just like they have always been. Microtransactions came later.

Quote:

Originally Posted by immortius

What is objectionable is selling things that have affect the balance of play in PvE missions, explorables or PvP

Then you would be ok with Anet selling skins. That doesn't fit your description. Hell if they sold gold that just barely fits into your description, because gold is only needed to buy max armor/weapons which is easily done without buying gold.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

So far this is *exception* to how anet does business, they mostly stick with sell-chapter-be-rich-dont-ask-for-more-...-hey-lets-do-free-updates.

Which everybody was happy with. Now they are happy to purchase in game stuff?

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Duh, yes. It is okay to buy new campaign to get more areas, new skills, new drops, new quests. Or do you want to go uphill on your slippery slope?

You didn't answer my question...ok to sell UAX and skins along with storage?

Dakka Dakka · Apr 21, 2009, 11:00 PM // 23:00

Ok listen up because I am going to trash the boycotters argument with their own argument, just watch. Let's think about the reason to boycott the storage update shall we? "because ANET is having people pay real money for virtual additions, and that you are paying for something that doesn't exist".

Did you ever stop to think about what it is that you bought to play? A VIRTUAL GAME THAT DOESN'T EXIST! sure you bought a nice CD that after you get done loading up makes a nice coaster but the main thing you bought was all made up and intangible, yet you paid REAL money to get it. Why is this storage update any different?

Is the update a money making scheme? Yes, yes it is; ANET is a company, a company runs on money, GW is F2P once bought so a company has to make money somehow. I mean you get another FREE bag space so quit complaining.

/not signed and I believe /thread.